These are penny pinching days. The wise consumer is looking for many different ways to save on necessities. If gas is ten cents cheaper down the street, why pay the higher price where you are? If there is a coupon to save five or ten dollars on an item, why pay more? In regard to consumerism, the coupon mentality is a good one. The ability to get the exact same thing at a reduced price is wise stewardship. My problem is when professing Christians apply that mindset to their faith. People say that they want to have patience, they want to be godly, they want to have peace, they want to have joy, etc. The problem is there is a price to be paid. There is a way to have these things, but there can be no reduction in cost to obtain them. They come in the way of trials, they come in the way of warfare, they come in the way of prayer, and attendance upon the means of grace. Can’t I grow in grace and not pray and not read my bible and not set my mind on things above?
We live in a time of ‘costless’ Christianity. As has often been said, it will cost you nothing to become a Christian, but it will cost you everything to be a Christian. In our attempts to be more palatable, to reach more people, to ‘have more consumers’, we have sought to reduce the cost. Is evening worship too much for most people? Let’s drop it. Is prayer meeting too much for the modern American family on the go? Let’s drop it. Expectations of members? No such thing! In some cases, people are finding simply going to church at all too much to ask. Why worship God congregationally when I can be fed at home with my laptop? The findings of recently held Southern Baptist Convention stated that of the nearly 17 million members on church rolls that less than 7 million actually attend church. I’m not a math whiz, but I believe that’s what we call a disparity! With the rise in gas prices, many people are considering not attending church more than once a week to ‘save on gas’. But at what cost? Will I deny God His worship for 10 or 15 extra dollars a month? When some people have an extra unexpected bill come in, they will cheat on their tithes and offerings to make up for it. Why? Because God does not send them a bill every month? A recent study found that only 5% of professing Christians tithe. Why is it that when ‘sacrifices’ need to be made that God is the one who is shortchanged? Why not cut back on internet, cable or satellite TV, magazine subscriptions, eating out? What we sacrifice or refuse to sacrifice is an excellent indicator of the heart! Professing child of God, what and where are your treasures?
James Savastio
Thanks for the post. Convicting and helpful. The first paragraph reminded me of the John Newton Hymn, I asked the Lord that I might grow. The middle stanza read:
I hoped that in some favored hour,
At once He’d answer my request;
And by His love’s constraining pow’r,
Subdue my sins, and give me rest.
Instead of this, He made me feel
The hidden evils of my heart;
And let the angry pow’rs of hell
Assault my soul in every part.
Yea more, with His own hand He seemed
Intent to aggravate my woe;
Crossed all the fair designs I schemed,
Blasted my gourds, and laid me low.
Thanks Pastor Jim. Convicting and helpful. Your first paragraph reminded me of the middle stanzas of John Newton’s Hymn, I Asked The Lord That I Might Grow.
I hoped that in some favored hour,
At once He’d answer my request;
And by His love’s constraining pow’r,
Subdue my sins, and give me rest.
Instead of this, He made me feel
The hidden evils of my heart;
And let the angry pow’rs of hell
Assault my soul in every part.
Yea more, with His own hand He seemed
Intent to aggravate my woe;
Crossed all the fair designs I schemed,
Blasted my gourds, and laid me low.
[...] Friday 27 June 2008 by Jeremy Walker Jim Savastio has some pointed things to say about our attitude to God in general, and particularly in times of financial pressure, in a piece on Coupon Christianity. [...]
I fear for the people in our churches when our pastors can’t tell the difference between inflicting a guilt trip on people and properly using Scripture to bring about a conviction of the Holy Spirit.
Why not exhort with the example of the Macedonians in 2 Cor. 8 or the widow in Mark 12 who “out of her poverty has put in everything she had?”
Remember, 2 Cor. 9:7: “Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.”
Your message creates the opposite of a cheerful giver.
Not only that, your language of sacrifice to God or denying God suggests Israel and the OC which has passed away, and not that of Christ who tore the veil and who was a sacrifice made once for all time (cf. Heb. 10). The flock to which you’ve been entrusted as an under-shepherd to Christ should not be taught in a way that makes them believe they are giving sacrifices to God out of compulsion or guilt.
This sort of message teaches people to do just what Christ condemned, engage in a Pharisaical tithing of mint and dill rather than a joyful generosity based in living as a child of Christ.
Brother Ed,
I am truly amazed that you consider what Pastor Jim has written to be like that of the Pharisees (this kind charge in our day is really getting old)!
These men never pointed people to the means of grace. The idea of treasures in heaven did not show up on their radar screen. They knew nothing of growing in grace!
I fear for people in churches that cannot tell the difference between a true shepherd of the sheep that are man enough to “reprove, rebuke and exhort” and do so “with great patience and instruction” and the false prophet who will say, “peace, peace” when there is no peace!
Also, you should know that we Reformed Baptist consider *all* the Scripture to be inspired and given to the church for her instruction. The Bible in all its various parts is a Christian book to be joyfully read for Christian faith and practice.
Pastor Savastio is right on target, American Evangelicalism has embraced a “costless Christianity” and this is because we think so little of the cost paid by Christ to make us His own.
Jesus said that those who are forgiven much would love MUCH. This BLOG stands a clear call to offer our bodies as a living sacrifice owed to such mercy.
One last thing, the fear of people feeling guilt is the result of the antichristian thoughts of Freud and not the Bible. Yet, I am certain that the people under Pastor Jim’s care do not suffer from any harm from his heart-searching teachings.
dc
“People say that they want to have patience, they want to be godly, they want to have peace, they want to have joy, etc. The problem is there is a price to be paid. There is a way to have these things, but there can be no reduction in cost to obtain them. They come in the way of trials, they come in the way of warfare, they come in the way of prayer, and attendance upon the means of grace.”
I think part of the problem is that we have it so easy here…The idea of “counting the costs” really is much different for the average American than it is for the fellow in Pakistan, China, or Turkey.
This road we fellow soldiers are on, shoulder to shoulder, is about commitment like it or not…what we have today is a lack of commitment expressed in many ways (the tithe being only one of many symptoms.) It is easy to be a cheerful giver when times are good. It is only when times aren’t the best, the giving hurts, the sacrifice takes its toll, and we can barely utter a word because we are in so much pain that the real fruits of the spirit shine forth…not the false, waxed fruit that “appears” to be real. eg. Real fruit: Patience / False fruit: Apathy.
Things that cost nothing are worth nothing. We are plagued with convenient Christianity and haunted by misplaced accusations of laying guilt trips. The devil loves it I am sure…
I am ardently hoping Ed Trefzger’s comments are satire. I emailed him to make sure that is what it is, but I haven’t heard back. He posts on the Reformed Baptist Discussion list and commended the blog post Pastor Jim did on RB Neanderthals, so I would be shocked too if he were serious!
David Charles said:
“Yet, I am certain that the people under Pastor Jim’s care do not suffer from any harm from his heart-searching teachings.”
AMEN!!!! When will you come visit us? We’ve prayed for you in prayer meeting…by brute compulsion
Well, time to go make a dessert for tomorrow, when I have to under guilt and torture joyfully celebrate Christ on His Day. Oh, it says “delight” and not “drudgery”…well then…
I assure you I didn’t post in satire.
However, I’m also aware from fellow members of my FIRE church of the abuses that have happened at the hands of a man endorsed and raised to the pulpit by one of the legendary patriarchs of the RB movement. Fortunately, that abusive man is no longer a pastor. (How he ever became one is beyond me.)
Years later, these generous and sweet people, many of whom give far more generously than a tithe, still bear the pain of a man who domineered and browbeat them. When I see a pastor talk about his people cheating on tithes and trying to guilt them, alarm bells go off.
If you read the Scripture I referenced, you’ll see that I’m not being satirical.
I’m not intending in any way to impugn Pr. Jim, whom I do not know and whose postings I often read and enjoy. My point was this: a regenerate membership indwelled with the Holy Spirit should be showing fruit of that Spirit. An exhortation by good example — the Macedonians, the widow, other OT and NT examples — does not impugn or belittle the flock.
A bad experience muddies the water. I can’t speak for what you witnessed/endured at the FIRE church (would this qualify as a para-church organization?), but if this fellow was abusing the flock, as you say, he should have been approached in a biblical manner.
What P. Jim has described and referring to is all too commonplace, sadly. I can’t tell you how often others have told me that I am in bondage and am too serious, when all I am doing is valuing the means of grace given to me. Lukewarmness is to be warred against…”Revelation 3:16 So because thou art lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spew thee out of my mouth.” that word spew (emeo) is a strong one.
When you wrote, “I fear for the people in our churches when our pastors can’t tell the difference between inflicting a guilt trip on people and properly using Scripture to bring about a conviction of the Holy Spirit,” the insinuation was that P. Savastio can’t tell the difference and uses scripture improperly. This seems to be a knee jerk reaction as a result from your experience which the devil seeks to pour gas on. Forgive me if this is too much of a stretch.
It is good to be sensitive to possible abuses, but further clarification is needed before we paint a pastor as a guilt tripping abuser and therefore unfaithful.
Satan has faithful pastors in his cross-hairs…and seeks the day when unfaithful men are in the pulpit as a matter of commonplace.
I read a book recently that you may enjoy by Alain Cairns titled, Fruit of the Spirit. Perhaps you have read it already, but if you haven’t I am sure you would enjoy it. It is a thin-ish book, but be weary of the thin ones as they can be deceptively deep.
You’ve misread my comment. There are people who are now members at my FIRE church who were under an abusive pastor in a Reformed Baptist church. I was not in that bad church; I fellowship with people who were abused.
Ed,
Your posts here have been abusive.
To reduce Pastor Jim’s entire blog to the issue of tithing is astonishing! Now to impugn by innuendo the character of a nameless leader (patriarch??!!) of our churches is out of bounds.
I am going to go out on a limb here and bet that you subscribe to New Covenant Theology.
dc
Getting back to my original post — this is what I would say based on the Scripture references:
I know that gas prices and rising food costs are hitting your budget. We are all feeling the impact. But let’s remember that we are still the most affluent and materially-blessed people in the history of creation. We all remember the example of Jesus at the temple highlighting the widow who gave two copper coins — all she had. She gave the most out of her poverty. Remember Paul speaking of the Macedonians — people of meager means — who gave generously and lamented they could not give more.
We are called to be good stewards of the bounty God has given us. When you buy a car, consider whether you really need a luxury model or whether a more modest car or a used one would do. Think about whether you need a 3,000 square foot house if 2,500 will do. Decide whether you really need to go to a fancy restaurant when a more moderate-priced one would do. Be a good steward of the resources God entrusted to you.
Let’s remember that when times get tough, there will be those who suffer more than we will. I ask you to consider carefully how you spend your money and where your money can do the most good. Perhaps staying home instead of going out for a meal, or getting rid of a magazine subscription, or some other item can help you focus on those areas in which you desire to give more generously. I’ll leave that to your heart and your conscience and for you to take to God in prayer. I’m sure you can find ways in which you can be a joyful and generous giver — which we are instructed by Scripture to be — even when you’re feeling a pinch.
@David Charles:
I really don’t think you would want me to name specific names here. I have heard multiple independent eyewitness accounts corroborating what was a sad situation and stand by the statement I made. I kept it very general so as not to specifically impugn an individual.
@Christian:
A church belonging to FIRE is not a para-church any more than a church belonging to ARBCA is a para-church.
“However, I’m also aware from fellow members of my FIRE church of the abuses that have happened at the hands of a man endorsed and raised to the pulpit by one of the legendary patriarchs of the RB movement. Fortunately, that abusive man is no longer a pastor. (How he ever became one is beyond me.)”
I am sorry…I construed this as you having first hand witness of the abuse that you mentioned.
So, I am wondering, do you hold to New Covenant teachings are are you just very sensitive to language like the original post of P. Savastio’s used in an abusive way?
Sorry for the silly question about NCT, I should have done my homework:
http://fbceny.org/audio/cherith/Cherith_documents/FutureofNCT_Trefzger.pdf
I was also clumsy in asking if FIRE was a para-church organization, like ARBCA, and NOT the churches themselves. My mistake.